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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:41:31 -0800 (PST)
My turn, I guess. I'm a 29-year-old Caucasian male living in Washington state. I'm a grad student working on my Ph.D. and do volunteer work with the local police department. I'm unmarried and live with one roommate, a guy I work with in between teaching classes and working on my dissertation. I don't have any children [though sometimes my roommate could seriously count as a candidate]. I don't really have a home town, a town that I'm actually *from* since my mom tended to move around a lot when I was a kid. I started watching The Watchman three years ago -- just love the way the 2 guys relate to each other on that show. Reminds me a little bit of me and my roommate. Unlike many on this list, I've not been reading slash for very long and I read slash stories only about this show, since I can identify with it more than I can reading love stories about loud erratic Captains and their Vulcans or about one-armed Ratboys and their friends, the seriously disturbed paranoid FBI agents. But a student and a cop? Well, yes. I'm there. Just don't tell my roommate. Shhh... I'm not out of EITHER of those closets, yet. I'll let you know if there's an update on that. Gotta go. --Wolf oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:16:31 -0800 (PST)
On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Wolf wrote:
: I'm a 29-year-old Caucasian male living in Washington state.
Well, I was pulled right out of lurker status on this one! What do you know! Someone from *my* neck of the woods -- and a guy! There don't seem to be too many guys on this list and I was beginning to feel awash in estrogen here. OK, I'll go. I live in the Pacific Northwest also. I'm a Caucasian male in my late 30s and I work in law enforcement for a fairly large city about the size of Seattle. I used to be an officer in the military, until about 8 years ago. I was married once to a smart, level-headed woman who did scientific work up here, but she eventually moved to California. I still like her but we just didn't work out. Luckily, we didn't have any kids. Live with a roommate. He's who got me watching this damn TV show we all read about on this list. Gotta say, though, I can really see the attraction. Those guys seem just so *real* to me. Like I'm watching *me* and my best friend. He doesn't know I joined this list or that I read those stories -- I just started reading them a couple of months ago, when somebody on the list recommended one. Something about the cop taking his student friend on a stakeout at a gay bar and the kid gets slipped a mickey and wakes up the next morning in the cop's bed and wonders how he got there. Damn funny story! Well, I've been reading them ever since, whenever I can get on the computer without my roomie noticing me. I'm not sure I want him to know about my little hobby, here. Think it'd Make him a little nervous to know he lives with a guy who starts breathing hard over m/m slash. So really, I'm pretty much in the same boat as "Wolf." Guess it's a pretty common dilemma. Gotta go. --Panther oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:16:00 -0800
Well, since I officially lost my lurker status last week when we had that rash of introductions, I thought I'd add my two cents here and maybe get some advice. You see, I live with a roommate that I really think is a kick and that I think of as my best friend, but every once in a while, I worry that we really don't have that much in common. And I'm wondering if it's the age difference. You see, I was born in the late 50s and he was born in the late 60s and the world changed a lot in those 10 years. I mean how is he going to really relate to a guy who grew up when regular guys just never wore earrings, who remembers being glued to the TV set when they did the walk on the moon, who remembers the Watergate thing unfolding, who remembers when the Beatles broke up, who remembers the deaths of Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix. When he started college, personal computers were commonplace. When I was 18, they were either nonexistent or rare. I was growing up when homosexuality was illegal in every state in the US. There were places where you could go to jail for having oral sex with your own *wife.* I remember the first Earth Day. So much that he takes as givens came into my life through turmoil. For me, friendships are not easily made. I'm just amazed that we can get along as well as we do. But I worry that these differences in experience will create some unbridgeable gap someday. --Panther oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Date: Tues, 24 Nov 1998 20:34:50 EST
[[ I'm just amazed that we can get along as well as we do. But I worry that these differences in experience will create some unbridgeable gap someday. ]] ::smile and shaking head:: On the contrary, Panther, I think that these things will make your friendship closer. What you talked about are memories, not perceptions - if *those* are too different then it can cause problems. But from what you've been describing, it sounds like you both have a lot to get and learn from one another. Those of us who grew up with such givens (I was born in '74) tend to forget the struggles that brought them about - I am constantly amazed at all the years of turmoil and change that led to where we are today. Good *or* bad. That you were there, that's just great - we tend to forget, or want to forget, things like segregation, the Cold War, etc etc etc. We need people to remind us, so that we can appreciate such things and their results, not to mention the people who accomplished great deeds. Don't sweat the age difference based solely on its existence - if couples can make it with 10 or more years difference between them, then so can friends! :) Grace oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Date: Tues, 24 Nov 1998 17:21:34 -0800 (PST)
On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Panther wrote:
: Well, since I officially lost my lurker status last week when we had
[snipped a lot of good examples]
Panther, I *so* know what you mean! But I'm coming from the other side of the gap. I have a roommate who is about 10 years older, also, and sometimes he seems even older than that! It's not that he's stodgy or anything like that; it's more like he's seen a lot of heavy stuff in his life. Lotta mileage on that guy. I have been wondering about this a lot lately. I wonder if the way he was brought up will, as you say, make this gap unbridgeable. His upbringing and mine were, like, SO different. Like 180 DEGREES different. It's like I was brought up on Venus and he was brought up on freakin' Mars! Even so, I really love this guy. And that's part of the problem. I'm afraid that, because of when and how he was brought up, he will, like, *freak* if I said anything remotely like that to him. You see, really it isn't the fact that there are 10 years' worth of historical events that we don't have as shared experiences. I'm worried but not because the Beatles had come and gone before I was a year old, not because I was still nursing when men first played golf on the moon, not because John Kennedy and Martin Luther King were names I read about in history books, not because I skipped over typewriters and went straight to PCs, not because I was a baby during the first Earth Day. I'm almost 30, so at least 20 years' worth of historical events are events we *share* No. What I worry about most is that despite the movement of history, the social changes in the past 40 years -- these changes have not made it any easier for 2 guys to relate to one another with any kind of affection. This guy, my roommate, my best friend, is actually kind of affectionate on sort of an unconscious, non-verbal level. But if I start getting too ... verbal ... about my feelings, it's back to the old insults and stuff that I remember from grammar school. I know that the way he relates is pretty typical of guys, especially guys brought up when he was. And maybe that's why I've always more easily made friends with women ... But this guy has become really important to me. And it is that one difference that worries me the most. I try to have faith. I tend to be pretty sanguine about human potential. I just hope the fact that we are just 2 human beings trying to do the best we can, given our natures, cultures, upbringings, and environment ... will be enough, will carry us through. So, Panther, I know what you're going through! Good luck, --Wolf oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:43:47 -0800 (PST)
I'm really glad we did all those intros last week. Now I feel more like a member of this small society we've built here. Anyway, the other day someone asked when we knew the guys first fell in love, or something like that. I have another question. When did you first fall in love with one of the characters? I can tell some of you did because some of these posts just *drip* with lust. ;) But besides the fact that these guys are, you know, attractive -- when was it that you went "Oh wow, what a guy!" I can tell you one of those moments for me. Maybe it wasn't the first moment, but it stood out. Jake found out that Joe had been set up on a blind date. The guys were talking and Jake asked, you know, what if she wasn't very good looking. And the Joe said that he had talked to her for a while on the phone while they were making arrangements and that she seemed really nice, kinda witty. The cop just seemed to *like* her when they talked. Then he said, "Don't you know? It's the person, not the package." I, like, dumped my popcorn, going "Right On!" So ... listsibs ... any aha moments for you? --Wolf oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:04:49 -0800 (PST)
On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Wolf wrote: [snip]
: But besides the fact that these guys are, you know, attractive
Since it's pretty quiet on the list today, I thought I'd comment on Wolf's post. I wish I could get you to talk to my roommate, talk some sense into him. I missed that particular episode -- probably had to work that night -- but we had a situation like this a while back and I kept *trying* to say the same thing, but just not in those words. He kept talking about how this woman, a friend of his from school that I met accidentally while talking on the phone, was somehow not my type or not very attractive or something. Kept using euphemisms like 'she has an *inner* beauty.' I kept trying to tell him that looks were deceiving and that it didn't matter. And he did eventually give up on trying to keep me from meeting her. But I don't think he really ever 'got it.' I love the guy, but sometimes he just seems so immature. But maybe that's not the real reason why I'm so discouraged by that incident, though. I think I'm worried that if he's so, I don't know, *conventional* about things like this, then probably he'll be conventional about other things that could cause *us* problems. This is sort of funny, because most people look at us and see *me* as the old-fashioned guy and see *him* as 'new agey.' But that's just more proof that looks are deceiving. Gotta get off now. -- Panther oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:37:23 -0800 (PST)
Angela said:
: Well Wolf
I think Jake is great, too. Reminds me a little bit of my roommate. But for me, it's not what some of you guys call the puppy-dog look. It seems to be more of an accumulation of things. One thing that really impresses me about the kid is that he's not easily intimidated. Remember when he originally met up with Joe? How much hostility he had to put up with before Joe finally lightened up and realized how much the kid meant to him? Joe was so *in his face* but he never backed down. Really impressed me. Gotta go. I hear the roommate coming. --Panther oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Date: Tues, 24 Nov 1998 23:17:21 -0800 (PST)
I have read your particular problems regarding living with someone who is 10 years older/younger and your fears about a generation gap and I find I can't help offering up some advice: A few years ago I too had a wonderful roommate who happened to be ten years younger than myself...It was a strange arrangement...I am a female but needed a roommate to share expenses. The best candidate happened to be a guy....okay, a great looking guy. So we became roomies.....after almost three years of sharing everything "but" our beds, I came to realize I had fallen for the guy. But I was stubborn. I felt our age difference and the fact that he "couldn't" possibly feel the same for me was enough to refrain from telling him how I felt. Then the unthinkable happened. He was killed in an auto accident. Just like that. One minute I'm ordering out Pizza, vegetarian, the way he liked it and the next, I'm getting a phone call from the CHP. Seven months after his funeral I came across a journal of his and could not help but read it. It was then I discovered his love for me. Panther and Wolf, don't wait. It is obvious from your words that you love your roomies...um...it is also obvious you are talking about each other so please, from someone who lost her true love for lack of a few simple words, listen to me and tell each other. Years don't keep people apart, lack of shared memories don't keep people apart, the fact that two people are of the same sex, mustn't keep two people apart. Only turning your backs on the truth can keep you two apart. oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:06:11 EST
Wolf wrote: (( But besides the fact that these guys are, you know, attractive - when was it that you went "Oh wow, what a guy!" ))
::mild snickering, completely unable to help myself:: First time I saw
the cop shirtless comes to mind. (vveg) I know, I know, love not lust
... Okay, now bear with me - I only came across this particular
addiction last year (what can I say, I'm a late bloomer
Later!
Grace
(who knows perfectly well that's more lust than love - just gimme time
... and the new season. ;))
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Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:05:29 -0800 (PST)
I guess we're all adults, here, and everything, but some of you ladies
are enough to make a guy go beet red, what with all your talk about
where the gray hairs are showing up!
Let me tell you -- I'd take gray, if I could just have some hair! I
know I keep it short, but I don't want to look like those guys that sort
of comb it over that spot on top. So I just sort of said to myself
well, if there's no hair, there's no hair -- call it what it is.
I'm more worried about other things that come with age -- the muscles
that aren't quite as tight, the thicker stomach. Vanity, I know.
There's other sort of personal stuff, but I really can't bring myself
to be as 'out there' as some of you ladies.
Let's just say that there are things that I could do at 30 that I'm not
quite up to doing at near 40. Well, I *can* but not as often or for as
long.
Makes a guy a little nervous about trying to initiate a new
relationship, if you follow. Especially if it might be someone who
happens to be a little younger.
Isn't this thread a little off-topic? Don't we have to do something
about that?
--Panther
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Date: Wed, 25 Nov 98 10:39:05 -0700
Panther posted:
>Isn't this thread a little off-topic? Don't we have to do something
Don't recall how long you've been here, Panther, but yep, you now 'owe'
an ObWatchAD. :) That's a short (under 50 lines) dialogue, fiction
snippet,
poem, whatever that is about the show and the guys. That makes it about
the show or about slash, and then it becomes on-topic again!
Feel creative, Panther? :)
Ann
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Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:54:24 EST
Panther -
ROTFL yet again! ::turning to other female members of list:: Told
y'all I could just about see their faces!!!!
(g)
Seriously tho, just remember that with age comes wisdom, not to mention
greater sympathy, knowledge, and (::grinning already at imagining
Panther's blush::) creative uses of such knowledge. ;)
Okay, okay, I said serious! So here 'tis - if the gal you meet is worth
anything at all, she'll care more about the aforementioned qualities
than the amount of hair on your head, or the state of any other part of
your body. What truly matters in a relationship doesn't come from the
physical but from the soul - love is blind. Take it from a helpless
(but never *hope*less) romantic. ;)
Grace
(who knows the value of a good hug, true sympathy, and sincere love -
mainly
from not having any of the three in great abundance. ::sad smile::)
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Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:16:17 PST
[snip]
Come on, Panther, lighten up and let your hair down (bg). This is a
very friendly list. You can tell us anything you like. No need to fear
a few gray hairs and a broader forehead. Besides it probably gives you
a look of intelligence and maturity. Wish we women could age as
gracefully.
What about you, Wolf? Getting a little gray and bare up there? Don't
be shy. Tell us.
Aging as I write,
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Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:52:34 -0800 (PST)
On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Ann wrote:
Listmistress Ann says I owe some sort of snippet or something because I
veered off topic.
I'm not really a very creative guy when it comes to using words. That's
more my roommate's line.
Well, here goes nothing. My first snippet:
Wednesday nights I watched a show
-- done --
--Panther
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Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:14:18 -0800 (PST)
I know this is an international list, but the American Thanksgiving is
coming tomorrow.
Thanksgiving is one of my favorite traditional holidays.
Every year I make a list of things I'm thankful for. Being able to
write to the people on this discussion list is one of them.
I feel a little lonely this year because my mom can't make it tomorrow;
she's out of the country at the moment. But maybe I can make a special
dinner for me and my roommate. He's not very close to his family so
maybe I can be a substitute. He's really become *my* family in the past
couple of years.
Here's wishing everyone a pleasant weekend and to my American listsibs,
Happy Thanksgiving!
--Wolf
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