It's really nothing more than another zany Starship passing by my Universe. Borgs and any other creatures out there will happily join, but I'm a human, and I use mechanization to my own ends, as I see fit. If I don't want it, I can say "no" to any form of technology. That's the characteristic which makes me human. And that choosing is alive and well in me.
"....Yahoo! reminds me of the Vogons and their new creation reminds me of hyperspace bypasses ...." Richard Lowe.

In
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reviewing the damage, the fury, the uselessness and the recovery of a Disastrous take-over


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Ringmaster's Comment: This Ring is in protest to the Yahoo! take-over of WebRings and to express our opinion of the appalling disregard for the Ring Masters whose blood, sweat and tears went into the making of their Rings. September 5, 2000 was The Day The Rings Died.
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RINGSURF  the New Phoenix of Webring Systems
Ringmaster comments for this Ring: Like the legendary Phoenix rising from the ashes, RingSurf rises, better than WebRing ever was, responsive to input, making improvements, involving the Ring Masters in decisions, caring about out concerns. RingSurf rises from the ashes known as Y!WR.

Anonymus one
I've been a member of the Ringmasters' list for over two years, and these last two months has made me feel much closer to everyone. More of our emotional side has been exposed, allowing us to know more about ourselves than just our webring problems. Yes, I have grieved the loss of my ring as a death or divorce, but there has been a camaraderie, and pulling together in one accord unlike before. The members of this forum mean more to me than just as ringmasters of other rings. I WILL create another ring at the right time, but for now will just sit back and enjoy being a member of the family here.
 
Anonymus two
No snickering here. I cried when I had to destroy my one Ring. They were like our children, were our beautiful creations of love. My Ring is now though on 3 webring servers. Not growing again as fast as I'd like but it just doesn't feel the same anyway somehow. Feels like it's dead and these are mere attempts at reproduction of the original. I hate that they did this to my Ring. Maybe some nice company like MicroSoft will buy them out *snicker*
 
Donna Smillie
If this person/persons would only understand....all it would take is just for Yahoo! Webring to act like any other responsible business (on or off line) and talk to their customers and users. That's the reason I stopped posting. I don't want a mediator to 'hand carry' my problems with my account to the ones in charge. I want to talk to them myself. To correspond with them myself. Posting information about my account, my Rings, etc. in a public forum leaves me very uneasy. The whole idea of posting problems in the Y Webring News and the closed club is ridiculous and more frustrating than the original problem. Give me an input form.

Thank you. I feel better now.. 
 

James S. Huggins
Given that Yahoo! wasn't really deriving any stock value AT ALL from owning what used to be the Original WebRing, it really doesn't matter to their stock price if they destroy the Original WebRing in their quest to build the new Yahoo! WebRing.
Yahoo! is paranoid about communication. We are a community that wants to know everything yesterday and can't understand why there should be any secrets. Yahoo!, in part because they see information as their corporate asset, and in part because information affects their primary measure (stock price) and in part because sharing information is of zero value (it won't help the stock price) . . . for all these reasons Yahoo! has zero incentive to tell us diddly. If we don't like what they say, we'll just criticize it, lampoon it, make fun of it and otherwise vocalize our displeasure. If we DO like it, then, in their eyes, waiting another month or two won't matter.
 
Jock Dempsey
Killing Webring has got to have cost Yahoo somewhere between 10 and 70 million dollars a year.  So much for being greedy. However, they won't see the real loss until the first of the year when all they are hosting is a bunch of sign posts. . .  Inertia hides a lot of problems in a big business.
 
Bob Davis, CEO Lycos
A [single] brand eventually saturates. It can't continue to build. I believe very strongly that that is Yahoo's Achilles' heel. They're a great company.
They've executed in the marketplace extremely well. But sooner or later, a mono brand just doesn't work. It can't stand for everything for everybody.
{ READ ]
 
Gordon
As a side note I hope that Yahoo paid lots of money for the webring system. Some pencil pushing idiot is going to have to explain to the stock holders why they lost it all when all the rings go down. I cannot believe they changed a working system that has a proven track record and millions of users to a new prototype system. I cannot figure out why Yahoo would mess with the admin tools and ring setup when they only wanted the directory. What a bunch of idiots.
 
Confused Ringmasters
There must be hundreds of confused Ringmasters out there, who themselves have not been able to grasp how the Yahoo!WebRing system works, who have abandoned their Rings in frustration, not only because the system is complicated, but also because there has been Database corruption, server slowdown and outage, erroneous emails, never arriving emails and double emails.
Here are links to two Ringmaster's Sites, who seem very confising in their Instructions for Members.
[ READ ]
 
Jock Dempsey
In the process of taking away control from the Ringmasters and site owners Yahoo has created a situation where their dull grey bar can dissapear. Their corporate arrogance lead them to believe they could make one type of nav bar fit all situations. In their zeal to rid themselves of the Ringmaster creations they forgot that nothing is simple on the WWW. They also underestimated the talent that has gone into creating and testing the tens of thousands of custom code fragments.
 
James S. Huggins
But I would like to believe that the contacts we have made, the community we have shared and the insights we have created will live on beyond this silly disagreement with a faceless corporation. We have faces, we are real, and we care.

If only for that, it has been worthwhile. At least it has for me.

Yahoo! and The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy - Richard Lowe
It's now over a month since Black Tuesday - the death of the Webring system as we knew it. Since it's Friday the 13th, I thought it might be appropriate to spend a few minutes to add my two cents to some of the discussions going on here in this group.

Since Black Tuesday a lot has changed, for most of the members of this group and myself certainly, as well as for all ringmasters and ringmembers [in Webring] everywhere.

Personally, the change pushed me to change hosts from one that was not working well (down several times a month and often slow) to one that supports CGI and also is extremely fast and to date has not been down once. I am dramatically changing parts of my website now that I have access to new tools like CGI, PHP, ASP, Htaccess and so on. I've moved all of my rings (except one left on Ringsurf) to Ringlink and have tried out and reviewed as many of the other ring systems as I have had time for. I am in the process of setting up a new ringlink system for my wife's rings and have adopted and moved several abandoned rings.

The Ring community has grown by leaps and bounds and has become, in my opinion, stronger and healthier since the day of destruction. I've read every post since that day, written dozens of articles and had extremely interesting discussions with dozens of wonderful people, all as a result of a very destructive act!

I've seen the WebRingNews club, which was an incredibly useful and communicative group turn into an Orwellian hell, with postings and id's deleted by some arbitrary idiots who changed the rules in mid-stream because they didn't particularly like what people had to say. Others have defended the people performing these deletions for various reasons - but I cannot do so. Wrong is wrong, bad is bad and evil is evil. It must be recognized, acknowledged and, ultimately, not tolerated or the deeds will spread and continue until everything is the same shade of grey.

I am sad to see a system utterly destroyed in a single day, a system which enabled wonderful communities to be created on the web by many kind and caring people. A new Ring system has arisen from the ashes, a system which, to put it bluntly and frankly, sucks.
The new Web Ring is inherently flawed and will never again be as glorious and wonderful as it was just a couple of short months ago. Oh, I am sure it will make Yahoo! plenty of money, but it is, by design, hostile, sterile and barren. The people who modified Web Ring should be ashamed of the destruction they have done, and of the pale, useless, idiotic shell of a system that they have put in it's place.

Of course, we should have (and many did) see it coming. After all, this is the company that destroyed GeoCities. I have many fond memories of that place which is now just a thin, pale version of it's former awesome glory.

Yahoo is the company which is notorious for not giving a hoot about people who submit sites to their directory ... after all, they do not make any money from those submissions. It is a crying shame that their directory has become so popular, as it is actually incredibly lame compared to others such as DMOZ. At least in DMOZ you can submit your site and have it reviewed and added within a reasonable amount of time. At least with DMOZ you can understand the submission criteria, and if you want, you can even join and become a "guide" yourself. What better way to be part of something than to be able to join it and give back something to the web community!

Personally, I am removing Yahoo! from my life. I have moved my rings (except for a "stub" of each, to be deleted Jan 1, 2001) and I am moving my sites from all rings which have decided to stay with Yahoo. I will not be part of this grand money-making scheme called Yahoo! any more.

Oh yes, what does 42 have to do with anything? Read Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy and perhaps you will understand. Yahoo! reminds me of the Vogons and their new creation reminds me of hyperspace bypasses ... why do people need bypasses? Because they've got to have them...
 

Anne Woodley
I left Webring after Yahoo took over as they took away almost all the features I liked - they made it almost impossible to change my ring logo, - I could only delete or suspend members - I wasn't able to alter my own members entries for them. I had to take a new Yahoo ID. They changed the system overnight and almost nothing worked. They don't answer email help requests quickly - sometimes it takes days - and if you finally do get a reply it is clearly by someone who doesn't care as it is always one that shows that they have not read the question properly.

I stuck it out for nearly 3 months but at the same time had a look at other systems available. There are so many good systems out there - I'm using MIMAnet now  - not only are they personal and friendly but they will never be taken over by Yahoo.
 

Jock Dempsey about his move
This is the NEW Web Ring hosting site of anvilfire.com. These rings are no longer affiliated with Yahoo/Webring. We left that system due to the policy changes there that have forced tens of thousands of Ringmasters to move their rings to independent systems. These reasons include the intrusive requirement of all members and Ringmasters to register for a "Yahoo ID", the denial of access to databases developed and maintained by the Ringmasters, and removal of all perks previously granted in exchange for the work of the Ringmasters, and the requirement to use their poorly designed ugly grey Navbar.
 
Alan LaCombe about Protest Rings
All these protest rings and skeleton/signpost rings are just building up Yahoo!'s stats and making it appear that Y! webrings are a success. I bet Yahoo! has more rings now than before the takeover - I dont like the message that is sending to them.

There is a great difference between Y!WR having a large number of Rings, and having a large number of fully functioning and active rings. Consider what will happen if Y! ever decides to use the WR numbers to try to convince investors or advertisers that they have a thriving community here.
If I were looking to invest or advertise here, I would take a little time to see exactly how successful the whole thing is. The more skeletons there are pointing elsewhere, the more likely people are to see exactly how unsuccessful this system is. I really like James' concept of a protest ring in every category.

There is nothing preventing us from contacting the companies which advertise at Yahoo! and especially Y!WR, to let them know exactly what has happened here, and why their advertising dollars might be better spent elsewhere.
 

Bonni (Blogs for Women)
I'm wondering who they got to design this new "improved" system. In all seriousness, designing a web portal (which is basically what this is) takes a team of experts with lots of time, money, and expertise in their fields. The beta testing should be extensive and exhaustive, and -- this is one of the key points -- they SHOULD be accepting lots of user input in order to find and fix bugs in the system. 

Perhaps I'm too cynical (I'm often accused of being so), but it appears to me that Yahoo! isn't following at least some of these necessary steps in reworking the webring system. They are certainly not taking input (this is a really important took in portal development!), and their programmers really don't appear to have any idea what they're doing, plus the beta testing was apparently inadequate or poorly conducted (possibly under very controlled circumstances which didn't account for a lot of variables; my guess is that this is the case). 

Speaking as a professional web developer who is married to yet another professional web developer (who is a leading programmer on a very big and complex portal project), it looks to me like Yahoo! once again lives up to its name.

In other words, they sure look like a bunch of yahoos to me. 

It was a very small, specialty ring that got a reasonable amount of traffic for a Ring of that size and limited interest, and I've just deleted it from the Y!WR system. I know James recommends leaving a "ghost" ring and I may do that with one of my other two rings, but for this ring, I just wanted to delete it entirely, plus the existing ring fragments out there for the old ring have a link DIRECTLY to the ring's homepage, so anyone who stumbles across the ring and is interested can still join the new ring. 

The ring is currently half the size it was before the move to RingSurf, but I pretty much expected that some people wouldn't be cooperative about making changes (I know people and human nature pretty well). 

And now I feel... You know, it feels a lot like a divorce. I'm sort of relieved that it's over, but sad that it ended badly and that the relationship broke down. Odd, isn't it? 

I wonder what the yahoos would think of someone confessing that their takeover of a system feels like a divorce? Bah. They'd probably just snicker and think I'm too emotional for a mere demographic and marketing target (after all, that's all I am to them).
 

Sugoimog
Your Ring was for a very personal purpose, a memorial to a dead loved one. The poor Ring Master that lost a whole disabilities ring is also probably quite upset, it just got deleted by the Y! And even if a Ring wasn't for the memory of a person or for helping the disabled, it was a community you created. Every detail, not just one or two images, the homepage, every thought expressed on your ring pages was lost. Some of the loss was in the inability to easily access that homepage which you had poured your heart and soul and creativity into. Some of it was the reduction of a thing of beauty to a 50 x 50 pixel image linked possibly to a cookie and a beautifully designed Web Ring fragment to a very ugly, boring, uninspiring Navbar linking not to you the creator but to Yahoo. And your loss of control over your Web Ring is also worthy of grieving. For myself, I was more angry than saddened, however I was not surprised unfortunately at the way things have gone. And I do not at all anticipate losing all the friendships I have on my mailing lists which I anticipate won't fare any better.
 
Karen Etzwiler
This is the type of unscrupulous and immature behavior that will unfortunately lead us to a "government controlled" Internet.  Very Sad.  As for the efficiency of your "merger", I will not waste any more of my time searching for webrings in bogus directories, wrong directories, and any old directory that has nothing to do with the subject because Yahoo will let me submit to any and all categories without regard to content! Thanks a Million ....for proving that the "Peter Principle" still works.... Keep moving into area after area until you find one you suck at and then stay there.
 
James S. Huggins
IMO, Yahoo! never really cared about the rings it would lose. Oh, it wants to keep as many as possible, even the "dead" and "abandoned" ones to manipulate the stats.

But they are counting on the malcontents leaving and newbies joining who don't know better. And, sometimes, they tossed the "old" rings a bone, like being able to "keep" the HTML code (even though there is no way to effectively update the "home" function and it is difficult to obtain "site ID" and difficult to let new members know). Why do I suspect that the "old ring" exemption is truly an "old ring" exemption? Because the newbies won't know better.

Eventually the old guard will leave. I can even see Yahoo! touting its version of the ring concept as "better" (easier to manage, no need to create complex HTML code, less of a time commitment).

In fact, that is perhaps my biggest gripe: that they don't have the integrity to be honest with us about their true intentions.


 
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