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Open
letter by Bob Marion
Bob
sez
At the time of the transition,
this was the official club for communication with Y!WR. It has now become
a place where people go to (occasionally) post problems, and (more often)
have fun with the abusive moderators, post things to see how long they'll
last before being deleted, and trying not to be banned. It is not a pleasant
place to be, but sometimes we have to visit, in order to try to get some
bit of 'official' information. [ READ
]
All was going well until I brought
up questions relating to design issues and other related matters. After
one
particular post, I discoverd
that I could no longer access the club. Well, well I thought to myself,
censorship exists here. Nothing in my post was off topic, it had no offensive
language, was certainly not pornographic, illegal or
anything not permitted per
the T.O.S.
Curt keeps a record of
deleted posts by number:
Deleted
posts #3000 series
Deleted
posts #4000 series
Deleted
posts #5000 series
Well, y'know Bob - when you
treat people like children, they frequently start behaving that way. It's
a fact of life. It's human nature.
I don't care if this is
an "official" club or not - cause I haven't seen where it being official
has gotten us much. Sure occasionally, we get a response that a problem
we've posted has been "sent to engineering" - and even more rarely, we'll
get a response that "your problem has been fixed".
I wouldn't want to trade [places]
with Bob. But I had no stakes in anything, and I was lucky enough to see
right away that yahoo was not an environment that suited my view on healthy
communication with people.
Re this one comment: "Please
also remove all references to Bob "The Bob" Marion.." Gee, wouldn't it
be nice if all public figures had this much clout. Bet President Clinton
would have liked Ken Starr to remove all references to him in his report.
There are a lot of people who don't want enquiring minds to know. What
makes the Bob so special? [ READ
]
I think that she is being snotty
and rude. I think she is power tripping. I don't think that I will kiss
her bee hind anymore. She insulted the intelligence of us and ring members
in general. Period. She gets snitty all of the time. I don't like miss
prissy marissy. You can if you wish, and I will not start anything with
her but if she insults our intelligence I certainly will ask for an apology.
Did anyone notice that her apology was directed at only 2 people? I thought
she wasn't bad until yesterday. Now I have seen the true marissy. Do as
you wish, and I will follow my own path.
I was only here for three days
when the deleting and ignoring started. I definitely did NOT feel comfortable
when I realized my innocent questions were being deleted without a word.
I felt even less comfortable when my questions about the deletion were
deleted as well.
This is not a healthy environment
to create a sense of community in to begin with. In the short time I was
here, I've mainly witnessed nastiness on your part and arrogance on Bob's.
It is YOU who should set the parameters for a healthy community.
The label "community" is being
used to condemn speech which some find offensive. Much speech is offensive.
If you do not want to be flamed, don't be on the net. I'm flamed regularly
by someone who disagrees with me.
Question: Using graphics may
be copyright violation, but including text from a public forum such as
yahoo clubs? This does not appear to me to be copyright violation as this
is public. Same thing as a reporter writing down a speech he's listening
to, I would think. James, anyone, opinions?
The
Yahoo! Club WebRingNews
Another
Person Leaves Webringnews
The
End Of WebRingNews
Posting
to WebringringsUncensored
Leaving
the Protest Clubs
My personal note: Postings of
speculation, rumor and hearsay are not the result of evil or hostile intentions
on the part of the posters. Rather they are the result of the natural human
curiosity and quest for knowledge combined with a lack of information imposed
by an organization that seems to abhor information sharing and that acts
as though ignorance is an acceptable solution.[ READ
]
Retrospective 1
Deb Humeniuk |
I think the tone for dealing
in these newsgroups was set by the bannings, deletings etc - now we are
supposed to act like nothing happened? Sorry the world does not work this
way. They should have thought of that before the rude manner in which a
lot of members were treated. You treat people like crap - funny thing -
thats how they treat you back.
Lets put it this way - if
Marissa and Bob walked away from this club would we know any less than
we do right now? Have we been told anything about any updates - requests
etc? I cant think of much.
Strength is irrelevant. Resistance
is futile. Freedom is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. Negotiation
is irrelevant. You will be assimilated. You must comply. A Y!ID is required
for maximum communication, we will work as one mind. We are the Y. Resistance
as you know it is over. We will add your technological distinctiveness
to our own. You will all become one with the Y. Why do you resist?
We only wish to raise quality
of the Y for all.
I am Bob, of Y. Resistance
is futile. Your webring as it has been, is over. From this time forward,
you will service us. You have an imperfect webring, created by an imperfect
ring manager.
RingSurf. We used to be
exactly like them. Flawed, weak, customizable.
But we evolved to include
the SSNB. For now we use both to attain perfection.
Brave words. I've heard
them before, from thousands of web managers across thousands of webrings,
since long before you were created, but now, they are all Y. Y do not consider
giving technology away, only assimilating it.
When a ring is damaged beyond
repair, it is discarded, but its members continue to exist in the collective
database. To use a human term, the Y are immortal. You will be assimilated.
Resistance is futile.
freely adapted from The
Borg |
| WebRingNews
- the "official" Yahoo!Webring News Club |
 |
Much
can be said about the Club "WebRingNews". It was a Club set up as one of
the many Yahoo! Clubs a fair while ago. The Club was set up by Bob Marion,
or 'The Bob' as he was popularly called, in the days that WebRings were
still owned by Webring.org. In those days it was called the Official Webring
News Club, because Bob Marion, who had been interested in Webring issues
from the days that Webrings were still owned by Starseed, had contact with
inside staff at Webring.org., and as such was an excellent vehicle for
transmitting information between the Ringmaster community and Webring.org. |
My drawing
of Bob Marion
|
| 5 September 2000: Changes
- remarks by James S. Huggins |
[WebRingNews] was founded, originally,
by The Bob. He knew and, presumably, still knows, many of the people who
were are StarSeed, which bought WebRing from Sage Weil. For a long period,
The Bob worked to have his club become the "official" club of WebRing (as
in WebRing.org). I believe it was a matter both of personal pride and a
love of both the system and the people. With the rancor and discontent
expressed in the club, particularly since the August email and even more
since the September transition, the "official" designation was removed.
I believe that this was a personal blow to The Bob. In the days since,
even despite the lack of "official" status, The Bob has been able to use
his contacts with the innards of Yahoo! WebRing to pass on problems, both
general and specific, to them. Thus the club servers as a kind of door
for those who know about it. Thus the club, or more precisely, The Bob,
owner of the club, serves as a go between...."
[read
source]
| 5 September 2000: A New
Reference and New Rules |
When the take-over of Webring.org
by Yahoo! took effect on September 5, 2000, the function of the Club shifted
and it became the "Official Yahoo!Webring Club", although nobody is quite
sure whether this was by decree of Yahoo!Webring, or simply by declaration
of Bob Marion. The undertitle of the Club changed again at a later stage.
The Founder Bob Marion maintained his role as moderator of this Club. Another
moderator joined WebRingNews. Her name was Marissa.
For a short while a third
moderator seemed to join the Club. He did not identify himself, Bob referred
to him as "Bubba", and he signed a few messages with the rather aggressive
title "The Enforcer". It was also in this period that Bob's name disappeared
from the Founders list of the Club. Several members asked what was happening
to "our" Club. No answers for these events were ever given.
I had several quotes of Bob
Marion on another page, which I had collected from two sites. One of them
was An Open Letter by Bob Marion, and the other was a column called "Bob
sez". Both links are on the left of the page.
Then a complaint was submitted
to my free web server by someone. The complaint called for the removal
of "references to "The Bob" or Bob Marion, and the removal of the logo
you can see on top of this page, because it was claimed to be "unauthorised
use" of the Club's own graphics.
I complied and wrote to
'Academiarings' and received permission to use the WebRingNews logo on
this page. I also removed the "references to "The Bob", the series of quotes
from the other page. It may be, that out-of-context quoting may be a cause
for prosecution. And I don't want to be prosecuted. In addition to that,
the quotes which were listed on that page, were rather mild, humorous and
friendly references to Bob, and put there in jeste and as a friendly satirical
description of Bob. I liked Bob. Now things seem to have changed. I could
not quote Bob in this way anymore. I don't have a good relationship with
Bob anymore.
So instead we will be listening
to the Yahoo!Navbars of several Webrings. They should appear below if the
Yahoo! server is not down. I will care to explain why these Rings were
created by several Ringmasters who were members of WebRingNews, because
if I don't, you will probably have no idea of why these Rings were created.
From the context of this page most Rings will be self explanatory.
| It's been a month now:
Pamster says goodbye |
It's been a month now. There
have been HUNDREDS - even THOUSANDS - of valid questions asked - of real
problems reported - of helpful, useful posts in this club. Posts which
have helped Y!WR fix this mess that they made - at least as much as it
can be fixed. Posts which helped them find and fix problems that they were
unable to find themselves before they went live. Posts in which members
of this club have helped each other figure out how this works - because
we get little to no help from anyone else. Posts that pointed out problems
with the help text - where it was incorrect. Yet all we hear about from
the "parents" are what we've done wrong - the tiny percentage of off-topic
posts. The entire group is painted with one broad brush of "flamers, off-topic
posters".
| My own goodbye: No longer
safe |
Time has come for me to say
goodbye to WebRingNews. I do that with sadness. WebRingNews has been important
to me. I thought it was an open forum, and before and around D-Day, September
5, 2000, I had the clear impression it WAS an open forum. I got to know
The Bob, not always with positive energy, but always with some kind of
strong moral overtones, and a clear set of ethics. Bob was vocal about
his posting rules. Sometimes I even agreed with Bob. Rudeness, accusations,
profanities, and attacks on persons were deleted. I have no problem with
that.
I have been banned once.
Bob assured me that he didn't do that. That it was a Yahoo! glitch. I believe
him.
As of lately, the amount
of deleted posts have increased. The reason for deletions have shifted
away from that initial set of moral overtones to another reason. I'm not
exactly sure what this new reason is. It feels to me that the new reason
is "speaking out against Yahoo!".
Yesterday many posts by James
S. Huggins were deleted. With that action I was deeply offended. If any
member of WebRingNews was and is attempting wholly and with great commitment
to be posting according to the rules, then it was and is James.
On that same day James claimed
that Bob was the Founder of WebRingNews. Yet also on that day he asked
where the listing of Bob amongst the Founders had disappeared to.
The approval an deletion
of posts seems to slowly have shifted to the same sameness as what I so
deeply resent about Yahoo!. I cannot really express this well in words.
It is a form of oppression. A grey uniformity, which sucks the life out
of your individuality. A greyness which stifles your creativity. A sameness
which kills souls. It is that which was behind the indomitable underground
resistance of Holland in the Second World War. A greyness - ehhh, of Navbars.
Sugoimog expressed this in
her phrase on the Anti-Navbar pages:
Strength is irrelevant. Resistance
is futile. Freedom is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. Negotiation
is irrelevant. You will be assimilated. You must comply.
http://www.moggie.f2s.com/yquotes.html
To me, WebRingNews is no
longer a safe environment. It oppresses souls. And I need to leave. One
of you will delete this post. But not after having read it. So you know
what you are deleting. That is a decision you only carry a responsibility
for. May you feel that intensely.
Goodbye.
| The "other" Bob Ò¿Ó:
fun with satire and parody |
Once Bob Marion posted a message
on the newly formed "WebRingNews Uncensored", a breakaway Club formed by
irate, disgruntled and banned Ringmasters who had left WebRingNews. Bob
used a funny set of characters to depict his glassed face: Ò¿Ó
This little rather friendly
gesture created an identity for someone, who posted from thereon as 'webringnewz'
in several Clubs (Bob's ID was 'webringnews''). The "other" Bob
seemed to want to show another side of Bob and add some humor into the
tense situation which had developed at WebRingNews. Here's his interpretation
of (the seventh? version of) the Club Rules, posted by Bob Marion, in which
he stated that Rumor, Hearsay, Speculation and crossposting were NOT allowable
in the Club:
| The Club Rules: some examples |
webringnewz
|
10/19/00 6:06
pm |
Rumor: you have heard that Yahoo!WR is further crashing the servers,
so that the managing of WebRings or serving of the Navbar becomes virtually
impossible. This is NOT to be posted here.
Hearsay: You have heard that this Club violates the Rights of Members,
to express what they feel is appropriate.
As this is a form of anarchy, you are NOT to post this here.
Cross posting: You read at another Club something, such as:
"My personal note: Postings of speculation, rumor and hearsay are not
the result of evil or hostile intentions on the part of the posters. Rather
they are the result of the natural human curiosity and quest for knowledge
combined with a lack of information imposed by an organization that seems
to abhor information sharing and that acts as though ignorance is an acceptable
solution."
Source: http://messages.clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/webringnewsuncensored
/bbs?action=m&tid=webringnewsuncensored
&sid=1600195071&mid=638
You are NOT allowed to repost such messages here. It gives simplely
too much work for the moderators.
The "other" Bob Ò¿Ó |
Me see changes. Ò¿Ó
Last week no Bob Founder. Ò¿Ó
Last week The Founder was The Enforcer. Ò¿Ó
Now webringnews is Founder again. Ò¿Ó
Me click on ywebringnews (The Founder, The Enforcer) profile. Ò¿Ó
Yahoo tells me "user not found". Ò¿Ó
Real Bob got angry? Ò¿Ó
No enforcing here anymore? Ò¿Ó
Good News, or Bad News?
Let all members here know? Ò¿Ó
Maybe? Ò¿Ó
So we all know? Ò¿Ó
The "other" Bob Ò¿Ó |
| The WebRing News Protest Navbars |
The Navbars will appear below
in the order in which I describe them here. On many Sites here may be some
exeptions to the order in which Navbars should appear. Not on this Site:
I have "converted the Javascript Navbars into html tables. My own free,
small server is faster than the server of Yahoo!, the largest Internet
Company.
If you want to travel along
the Rings, I must warn you: many Ringmasters are deleting their Rings at
Yahoo!Webring. Many more will do so on 01 January 2001. So you may NOT
be able to surf along these Rings.
| 1. BoB Vader Ò¿Ó
Drawn to the Y Side |
With a reference to Darth Vader
and Bob's pro-Navbar's position, the Ring description states: All of those
wishing to fight the evil Empire are eligible to join, may the force be
with you.
| 2. Banned From Webringnews
Ring |
From the Ring description: This
is a ring for anyone who has been banned from the Yahoo! Club Webringnews,
or anyone who commiserates with us.
| 3. Insulted by Webringnews |
From the Ring description: This
is a Ring created because in excess of 30 members were banned from 'webringnews',
the Official Yahoo!Webring News forum, and more than 1000 posts by those
members and others were deleted by the Club Moderators. That was extremely
insulting!
From the Ring description: An
ode to the wazillions of deleted posts at certain Yahoo!Webring Clubs.
| 5. Bob's BUNs (butt ugly
navbars) |
This is a pun-only intended
reference to the dislike of the Yahoo! Navbars by the person who established
this Ring.
| 6. Ò¿Ó
We Are Watching You Ò¿Ó |
This Ring was created as a direct
result of the post by "The Other Bob", reprinted on this page.
| 7. Naughty Other Bob
- The Voice of Reason |
From the Ring description: Dedicated
to all of those who speak up in support of sanity in the system!
| 8. not the bob's Live
Long And Make Profit ring |
This Ring relates to a "favourite
quote" listed in the Yahoo! profile of one of the Club's Moderators.
| 9. the Bob, Marissa,
and Bubba - abuse of power |
From the Ring description: Yes,
another webring in honor of Webringnews, the deleting, banning capital
of the free world.
| 10. The Hearsay, Speculation
and Rumours Club |
See several snippets on this
page. From the Ring description: For members of certain Y? clubs that don't
allow hearsay, speculation or rumours, no matter how accurate the hearsay,
speculation and rumours may be :) |
